tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8030144.post114759532089869833..comments2023-10-29T11:50:25.742+02:00Comments on My Obiter Dicta: Not everything Thought...Jeffrey R. Woolfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11315625918870195028noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8030144.post-54456848455353100402010-01-18T13:59:02.706+02:002010-01-18T13:59:02.706+02:00He bases this conclusion on the fact that accordin...<i>He bases this conclusion on the fact that according to some Christian sources, an earthquake (363 CE) hit the city...<br />The problem is that Christian sources could have been expected to invoke an earthquake in this context, since that could be seen as an ‘Act of God.’...<br />This shows serious lack of homework...<br />...there probably was no earthquake.</i><br /><br />I'm not sure whether this comment will be seen, seeing as I'm writing it 3 1/2 years late, but I felt compelled nonetheless to respond to this point as soon as I saw it:<br /><br />Your criticism of R. Kosman in regard to the earthquake is quite unfounded: The earthquake of 363 is a matter of historical record, and is also attested to by archaeological evidence. See <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galilee_earthquake_of_363" rel="nofollow">here</a>, for example, and the sources listed there under References.Lurkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02712938121915827845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8030144.post-1148017827032837402006-05-19T08:50:00.000+03:002006-05-19T08:50:00.000+03:00Ben Bayit wrote "You are probably the only student...Ben Bayit wrote "You are probably the only student of RYBS that I can think of that went up on the Har Habayit and publicized it."<BR/><BR/>Might I add Rabbi Riskin to this list? <BR/><BR/>I have heard (second-hand) that a few years ago, Rabbi Risin became an outspoken advocate of going up to Har Harayit (betahara, of course), and quite a few people did so in his footsteps.<BR/><BR/>Awaiting redemption,<BR/>Avi P.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8030144.post-1148016058949266222006-05-19T08:20:00.000+03:002006-05-19T08:20:00.000+03:00An interesting source regarding both the different...An interesting source regarding both the different girsaot in the kitvei ha-Arizal, as well as the spiritual dangers of the Meron scene is Yehaveh Da'at V:35.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8030144.post-1147965905537454832006-05-18T18:25:00.000+03:002006-05-18T18:25:00.000+03:00Thanks for the interesting post. However, re your ...Thanks for the interesting post. However, re your words "throw cold water (even indirectly) upon a popular custom (something the Hatam Sofer explicitly refused to do)?", I think that is an inaccurate description of the position of the Chasam Sofer. He did figuratively 'throw cold water' on it, at least indirectly, by writing what he did in a teshuvah (responsum) which was published, albeit perhaps not too much 'in their faces' or on site.<BR/><BR/>Note also that Rav Elyoshiv shlita has never gone to Meron, despite living in EY for a while.<BR/><BR/>Also, FYI, Satmar and Dushinsky Chassidim oppose the lag baomer Meron thing as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8030144.post-1147959810853622972006-05-18T16:43:00.000+03:002006-05-18T16:43:00.000+03:00Sefer Minhag Tov mentions Lag B'Omer without any d...Sefer Minhag Tov mentions Lag B'Omer without any details, saying only "mishum nes shehaya". Clearly something happened he didn't really want to put in print (if you'll excuse the anachronism)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8030144.post-1147698097706596012006-05-15T16:01:00.000+03:002006-05-15T16:01:00.000+03:00I understand the objection to inveighing against t...I understand the objection to inveighing against this practice on grounds that it isn't becoming of scholarship. But all of us frum Jews who are interested in what actually happened as opposed to the mythos, whether we're Sunday historians or real historians, are constantly in a state of tension over these kinds of issues. The objective observer in me is willing to go "Isn't that interesting," but the frum Jew who has stock in the direction Judaism takes and doesn't want the train spiraling out of control does entertain opinions about these matters, and I suspect the same is true of the rosh yeshiva who wrote this piece and the same is true of any historian or scholar who is both an observer of the community and part of the community.Mississippi Fred MacDowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02734864605700159687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8030144.post-1147613545271963582006-05-14T16:32:00.000+03:002006-05-14T16:32:00.000+03:00I didn't read the article - thanks for saving me t...I didn't read the article - thanks for saving me the time - but if his big chiddush is the mistaken girsa - the Birkai Yosef 493:1,4 points this out at length as do later authorities.<BR/><BR/>AriAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8030144.post-1147610958855303112006-05-14T15:49:00.000+03:002006-05-14T15:49:00.000+03:00I wrote RYBS school, not RYBS. I think its a legit...I wrote RYBS school, not RYBS. I think its a legitimate disctinction to be made between the two schools. In the book reviews section of the same issue of MR, there is a discussion regarding an article Hana Kehat makes in the recent Matan journal regarding distinctions between the two schools as regards another area of Jewish life. This is a legitimate way of looking at things.<BR/><BR/>You are probably the only student of RYBS that I can think of that went up on the Har Habayit and publicized it. This issue was never discussed when I was in YU - period. From my understanding of how Kodshim was learnt in YU circles, it was a purely intellectual excerise offering fertile ground to apply the conceptual approach to Limud HaTorah (see Mr. Ben Chorin's post from today). I'm willing to be corrected on this as I have an open mind, but that's the impression I took with me from when I left YU and beyond. Places like the Machon HaMikdash don't seem to be viewed all that positively amongst this school of Religious Zionism. Naturally, I could be wrong. I apologize if any offense was taken - I meant none. I went to YU after RYBS had already left and my exposure to him is through books, and the written and spoken words of his students. <BR/><BR/>If Makor Rishon has any journalistic integrity (and I'd like to believe they do with Amnon Lord at the helm) then there is no reason they should have allowed the interviewee any leeway to dictate the terms of the headline or content of the article. Once he agreed to be interviewed, he was basically at their mercy. That's the nature of the media. So far be it from to decide it he was "manipulated into sensationalism" or not.<BR/><BR/>What I took away from the article after reading it was that 1) Lag Ba'Omer was connected to the bar Kochba revolt and possibly the attempt to rebuild the Bayit. 2) The linkage with Rashbi and establishment of the date as Rashbi's petira date was later in time and 3) There were poskim that didn't like all the celebrations surrounding a yahtrtzeiht. I didn't see any sacred cows being slaughtered.<BR/><BR/>BTW, do you believe that Lag Ba'Omer is indeed somehow NOT connected with the Bar Kochba revolt? I find it difficult to believe that it isn't. The plastic cowboys & indians bow and arrow we used get on Lag Ba'Omer each year in cheder don't really make sense otherwise. The story about the kids playing with bows and arrows in front of the cave to hide the limud hatorah that was taking place inside was nice for cheder kids, and perhaps nice midrash, but is it historical truth?Ben Bayithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10540723595738423002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8030144.post-1147610629350945572006-05-14T15:43:00.000+03:002006-05-14T15:43:00.000+03:00I got the impression from the article that he was ...I got the impression from the article that he was trying to clarify a reason as opposed to oppose a practice. The fact that his historical methodology is suspect should come as no surprise since it seems that his training is from Mercaz (in which case kol hakavod that he has gone this far).<BR/>As to Lag B'omer, Meron and grave worship - I would tend to agree with you if this were the one time a year that Israeli Jews visited graves and alleged graves, but this seems to have become the main source of religious practice for all too many.<BR/>What is amazing to me is that in my MTA/YU education I never once remember any of this Rashbi, ARI, Qabalistic stuff - rather only the R. Akiva story. It is only when I made aliya did I realize what a mitnagdic place YU is (or at least was).Hashoukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08980042421107163800noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8030144.post-1147609143399391552006-05-14T15:19:00.000+03:002006-05-14T15:19:00.000+03:00Can you please share with us the "stupid shayla" s...Can you please share with us the "stupid shayla" story?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8030144.post-1147602825753399562006-05-14T13:33:00.000+03:002006-05-14T13:33:00.000+03:00I disagree all round...1) I didn't say to distort ...I disagree all round...<BR/><BR/>1) I didn't say to distort history. I said that the take he had was taken too far. His 'discovery' does not justify his conclusion.<BR/><BR/>2) I was trying to be nice, but there is absolutely no reason to accept his speculation about starting to rebuild the Bes HaMiqdash on 18 Iyyar. Furthermore, there probably was no earthquake. Follow the links.<BR/><BR/>3) Where did you come off with the RYBS 'uncomfortable' with the Bet HaMiqdash? I learned three massechtos in Qodoshim with RYBS and saw no such thing.<BR/><BR/>4) Furthermore, he allowed himself to be manipulated into a sensationalist headline which is totally unjustified, based upon the content. <BR/><BR/>I applaud his study of history. I think it's part of Torah. One must, however, learn the arbeit before making bold declarations.Jeffrey R. Woolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11315625918870195028noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8030144.post-1147598667455273742006-05-14T12:24:00.000+03:002006-05-14T12:24:00.000+03:00WADR I have to disagree with you here. First of al...WADR I have to disagree with you here. First of all whatever happened to the whole Kotzker thing you quoted a few posts ago on truth - especially as regards Jewish history?<BR/><BR/>Second of all, I think that the Rabbi/Historian in question made it pretty clear that he was not out to slaughter sacred cows and that in fact he viewed positively the "folk" aspects of Meron and Lag B"Omer. He was just seeking to re-connect the the day to the forgotten Mikdash and nationalism aspects of the day. All legitimate I would think. <BR/><BR/>Let's not forget that the 18th of Iyar was also the "cornerstone" laying day of the second bayit and according to some the day that Bar-Kochba captured Jerusalem (all of which was mentioned in the article).<BR/><BR/>The fact is that many religious Jews - including Religious Zionists (espec. from the RYBS school as opposed to the RAYK school) - are distinctly UNCOMFORTABLE when it comes to issues of the Mikdash and/or Bar Kochba. That's what he's trying to accomplish here - not slaughter sacred cows.<BR/><BR/>One can see similar developments in the history of Hanuka as well. I.e. 25 Kislev originally as a day celebrating the dedication of the Second Temple, then the re-dedication by the Maccabbees and celebration of national sovereignty, only to be changed after the 4th century to a "spiritual" holiday.Ben Bayithttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10540723595738423002noreply@blogger.com